tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post851549629241916816..comments2023-10-11T10:08:09.664-05:00Comments on Willful Grace: Arrested Developmentgracehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16353719852472577554noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-75232457155569970482008-02-17T19:08:00.000-06:002008-02-17T19:08:00.000-06:00Thanks Carol! Your voice and perspective are impo...Thanks Carol! Your voice and perspective are important. In fact, if you'd ever like to write a guest post....just let me know. It's a good way to get your feet wet as a blogger...or might be.<BR/><BR/>MR: Thanks for coming back and for your encouragement. I feel strongly, as you do, that we should do what we can to prevent the sort of tragedies that happened to me and to Carol. Add me on Facebook!gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16353719852472577554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-58043819723780196902008-02-17T16:46:00.000-06:002008-02-17T16:46:00.000-06:00Actually, that photo is on JR's Facebook site, not...Actually, that photo is on JR's Facebook site, not Flickr.MRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747154844168947527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-82144104991246019542008-02-17T16:38:00.000-06:002008-02-17T16:38:00.000-06:00I agree with you that reparative therapy seems to ...I agree with you that reparative therapy seems to do more harm than good. I absolutely believe gay sex is wrong, but unless there is an absolute miracle I encourage same-sex attracted men to remain celibate despite the pressure in many churches to marry a woman.<BR/><BR/>When I commented before I told the story of my failed relationship with a woman. Thankfully, she did not marry me. I appreciate the way you continue warn others about this dangerous situation.<BR/><BR/>On a lighter note, have you seen JR's humorous photo on Flikr.com? It has a title "Reparative Therapy". In it he is firing a rifle at a target!MRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747154844168947527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-83231625670072190342008-02-16T07:33:00.000-06:002008-02-16T07:33:00.000-06:00The following is a long post - and I don't really ...The following is a long post - and I don't really oppose much that you say - I just want a forum to chime in...<BR/><BR/>The trouble with thinking that reparative therapy "works" is that the gay person has to keep WORKING at it all the time - there is nothing about that for the straight, self-accepting person. Although humans set standards for acceptable sexual, moral, and emotional behavior, it is not an ongoing war with one's own being if you are straight - going along with the socially-accepted gender norms.<BR/><BR/>In my limited experience (30+ years of being married to a monogamous but gay man) I am told that his gay desires would come and go - but only if he constantly suppressed them. This emotional mask led to further and further depression - to the point that he was near taking his own life when he finally came out to me. Although he and I loved (and love) each other, he is now free to be himself - with no illusions forced upon him to appear straight.<BR/><BR/>I have talked with other formerly-marred gay men who feel the same way (that the feelings came and went) - but many of their wives had way more to deal with because their husbands did not deny their attractions or their "gayness." This resulted in lies, deceit, and relationships that went outside of the marriage - all things which further damaged emotional support that is expected such as trust, closeness, honest communication, and monogamous sexual intimacy.<BR/><BR/>Other gay men who are still married, who believe that they love their wives, but who are in denial of their gay attractions, will say that their reparative therapy "worked." This is where I relate back to the attraction-flux of one's feelings, and I strongly do NOT believe that "happily-married ex-gays" are anywhere close to being non-gay. They still have the same sexual orientation, whether or not they have advanced emotionally past their adolescence or coming-of-age hurdles, REGARDLESS of whether or not they are participating in sexual behavior.<BR/><BR/>This "struggle" that is referred to in fundamentalist Christian circles, or groups that tout success in reparative therapy may be regarded as behavior-controlling, but making one straight it is NOT.<BR/><BR/>To the purveyors of reparative therapy, I wish I could adequately convey this pain that occurs to the SPOUSES who innocently buy into the lie that sexual orientation can ever be changed or fixed.<BR/><BR/>I will continue to wave red flags for all those young gay people who wish to marry an opposite-sex partner. Whether it is out of love, the desire for family, to please their extended family's or social norms, or if they somehow expect the gay feelings to be banished to god-knows-where - DON'T! To do so is unkind, unloving, dishonest, damaging, hurtful, disappointing, and WRONG.Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14545146592743875490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-48844121194283210222008-02-14T16:16:00.000-06:002008-02-14T16:16:00.000-06:00ok...well...that's a wonderful way to say Happy Va...ok...well...that's a wonderful way to say Happy Valentine's DAy! and I know you don't even like valentine's...but i'll take it as a great big valentine from you that you took the time to comment.<BR/><BR/>Thanks my friend!<BR/>:)gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16353719852472577554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-25002249012050328942008-02-14T15:32:00.000-06:002008-02-14T15:32:00.000-06:00Hm. Arrested Development.Great show. Even better t...Hm. <I>Arrested Development</I>.<BR/>Great show. Even better theory. <BR/><BR/>About that--my own <I>arrested</I> development--I would say the boundary-pushing therapist was dead-on. About <I>that</I>, at least. Emotionally, I had not developed. Past 12, said he. But I don't see that as the core issue of my "same sex attraction." I simply see it, as I think you were hinting, as my state of being pertaining more to my inability to maintain intimacy...grow...love myself. Because, yeah, we know a LOT of <I>straights</I> who are stuck emotionally at 12. A <I>lot</I>. And they're not...well...gay. <BR/><BR/>For me, "growing up" emotionally (hopefully I'm at least 17 now LOL) has been about accepting who I am, embracing the good God created in me, and, for the lack of a better analogy, unashamed of the body “puberty” brought out in me.<BR/><BR/>Ok. Maybe that's a bad analogy or worse, an oversimplification. I'm just trying to support at least one of the points I <I>think</I> Grace is trying to make: breaking someone out of his/her <I>arrested</I> state of development does not necessarily <I>straight</I> make. But on the whole, a <I>healthier</I> person it just might bring out. I agree that for many in such a position, deciding “to be straight” (living a straight lifestyle) is the choice. Not the other way around (“not being gay”). If that makes any sense.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Grace, thanks for being so authentic and transparently honest. <BR/><BR/><BR/>[Hope it's OK to post here. I have wanted to before...but feel free to delete this!]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-7987386857222222632008-02-13T16:40:00.000-06:002008-02-13T16:40:00.000-06:00Pam, I haven't written about my ordination, which ...Pam, I haven't written about my ordination, which took place long before I came to terms with myself and even longer before I came out. I recently sent a "coming out" letter to a group of old friends, many of whom were my mentors in ministry in those days, and in response I have been (informally) asked to renounce my credentials because I have, in the eyes of some, violated its terms. I'll be blogging a bit on it soon, so you'll get to read about it then. Or was there something in particular you were curious about? (Look, another dangling preposition!)Allyson Dylan Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06889758824779463307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-65422443607506946412008-02-13T09:57:00.000-06:002008-02-13T09:57:00.000-06:00Thanks Jarred!Thanks Jarred!gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16353719852472577554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-7850428957913860912008-02-13T09:39:00.000-06:002008-02-13T09:39:00.000-06:00This is such a great post, Pam!This is such a great post, Pam!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-19165767347143633952008-02-12T20:41:00.000-06:002008-02-12T20:41:00.000-06:00true......i was just hanging out at your site a bi...true......i was just hanging out at your site a bit ago and listened to your lesson about advent...very inspiring....if you have the time...just whenever...could you email me and tell me about your ordination? I'd love to know that part of your story...if it's on your blog and i just missed it...just link me to it....gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16353719852472577554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-26982284090100574472008-02-12T20:23:00.000-06:002008-02-12T20:23:00.000-06:00I dunno, Pam...they've run people out of Texas for...I dunno, Pam...they've run people out of Texas for less than that... =)Allyson Dylan Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06889758824779463307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-43882751124377822582008-02-12T19:47:00.000-06:002008-02-12T19:47:00.000-06:00thanks ally! and, for the record, i'm all for star...thanks ally! and, for the record, i'm all for starting a movement where dangling prepositions are accepted and valued just as much as those preposition who dangle not. how left-wing is THAT???gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16353719852472577554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3381314.post-16403155299132471302008-02-12T19:22:00.000-06:002008-02-12T19:22:00.000-06:00Grace, I *always* value your thoughts on these thi...Grace, I *always* value your thoughts on these things...and just about any other thing you choose to opine about (if you'll forgive the dangling preposition).Allyson Dylan Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06889758824779463307noreply@blogger.com